Defending The Kingdom 3/4: “Refitting the Backpacks” – Linebackers | Shop’s Wheelhouse, Acquired Taste

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Speaker 1: This is the Chief’s official podcast network, taking dannage on

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Speaker 1: the day when you get opportunity in every game they

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Speaker 1: can play. Okay, don’t do one touchdown. Kansas City the

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Speaker 1: Chiefs all right in the thick of it, baby, And

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Speaker 1: hello everyone, and welcome to this edition of Defending the

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Speaker 1: Kingdom as we continue our basic two month journey not

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Speaker 1: only through the Chiefs a roster, but we take a

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Speaker 1: look at a position by a position the Chiefs compared

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Speaker 1: to everybody else, and then taking a look at ahead

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Speaker 1: to the draft. We’re gonna walk you all the way

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Speaker 1: up to the draft. We’ve already looked the defensive line,

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Speaker 1: We’ve already looked at the offensive line. You can go

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Speaker 1: back and check the archives for those past shows. But

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Speaker 1: now we’re gonna get right in the wheelhouse of my

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Speaker 1: co host, Mitch Holds. With you, the voice of the

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Speaker 1: world champion Kansas City Chiefs, and with me is a

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Speaker 1: ten year lanebacker in the nash Football League. You know

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Speaker 1: him as the Shop, you know him as Barber Shop,

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Speaker 1: you know him as the spider Man, and you should

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Speaker 1: know him as a National Football League linebacker. We are

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Speaker 1: in your wheelhouse, Sean Barber, because today we’re at your position,

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Speaker 1: to look at where the Chiefs are with the spot,

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Speaker 1: where the league is with free agency and such, and

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Speaker 1: then also looking at the linebackers in the twenty twenty draft.

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Speaker 1: So welcome to your position, buddy, your home here. So

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Speaker 1: humble to be back defending the kingdom. Especially when we’re

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Speaker 1: talking about linebackers, something that whole near and dear to

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Speaker 1: my heart. How do we find them? How they bread?

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Speaker 1: You’re not you’re not you’re not you. You don’t build

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Speaker 1: a linebacker, you’re boring a linebacker. It’s a way of life,

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Speaker 1: it’s a mentality, it’s a mindset, and sometimes on film

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Speaker 1: your ayes loud to you when you’re looking at the

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Speaker 1: linebacker position. Sometimes stats lie. Sometimes speed during the combine lies.

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Speaker 1: That’s going to be a foreshadow into when we talk

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Speaker 1: about the combine. But all all in all, if you

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Speaker 1: see a guy, if he makes plays, he’s instinct. If

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Speaker 1: more than likely, he’s a solid linebacker. He’s a solid

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Speaker 1: ball player. Now you got to get in the meetings,

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Speaker 1: the one on ones. You gotta see what what his

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Speaker 1: moxie is, what his makeup is. Can he lead a

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Speaker 1: room of grown men when it’s nutcrutching time? When you’re

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Speaker 1: down fourteen points and you’re down ten points is the postseason?

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Speaker 1: The other teams trying to inflict their will on you.

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Speaker 1: One more first down and that’s the game. Can that

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Speaker 1: guy rise up in front of the other grown men,

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Speaker 1: in front of that hold of ten other guys and

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Speaker 1: say we’re gonna stop him right here, right now, they

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Speaker 1: don’t get another inch. That’s the mentality we’re looking forward linebacker.

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Speaker 1: That was Willy Lanier of the sixteen nine Chiefs. I

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Speaker 1: mean that’s you see the staying against the Jets. You

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Speaker 1: just describe Willy Lanier and really a lot of Anthony

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Speaker 1: Hitchens because he’s wired that way and he wears the

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Speaker 1: green dot. We’ll get in that in a second. I

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Speaker 1: think overall, this position, though, to me, is changing as

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Speaker 1: much as any of the National Football League. What is

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Speaker 1: an NFL linebacker now? The days if we just saw

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Speaker 1: Mike Singletary at the one on one, you and I

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Speaker 1: were with him. But the days of the big two

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty pound mic back are setting there. You know,

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Speaker 1: blowing snot bubbles in the middle of the defense and

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Speaker 1: barking around are over. Those guys get exploited now. Um

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Speaker 1: as good as Ray Lewis was the Ray Lewis is,

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Speaker 1: I don’t know where the place is for them. Now

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Speaker 1: it’s become these hybrid guys. I’ve got to be able

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Speaker 1: to cover more like the way you played. I gotta

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Speaker 1: be able to cover, but I still have to play

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Speaker 1: the run. I gotta play downhill or if they’re coming

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Speaker 1: at me on some io or power O inside in

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Speaker 1: the B gap, I gotta play that. Yeah, we got

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Speaker 1: we got some Kingdom people to just now try to

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Speaker 1: turn off because we said and Semetary might not survive

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Speaker 1: in the NFL the way. No, no, no, those guys

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Speaker 1: got so much intensity they’d make it. Lewis don’t say

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Speaker 1: the Trees to recreate their their their their mindset in

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Speaker 1: their game to fit today’s game. But the way they

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Speaker 1: did played during their era is almost null and void

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Speaker 1: in the current NFL system. The NFL system is so

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Speaker 1: much about creating matchup problems um and creating personnel problems

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Speaker 1: that if you had a mic linebacker and the only

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Speaker 1: thing he could do was go tackle the tackle and

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Speaker 1: run stop and and and and and and and put

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Speaker 1: his helmet on and you know, one on one against

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Speaker 1: a full back and make tackles for loss. If that’s

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Speaker 1: the only thing he could do. We got man Art’s

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Speaker 1: Kittles Kelsey, it would go for ten catches, two touchdowns

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Speaker 1: on a hundred yards every ball game against that type

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Speaker 1: of linebacker. So the Hitchens, the Barbers, the the these

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Speaker 1: uh John Mobley’s, the Dexter Coaxley’s, the um those linebackers

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Speaker 1: of the worlds are so crucial to the way defenses

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Speaker 1: are playing now. It’s a pass first, be able to

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Speaker 1: rally to the ball. You need playmakers at all eleven positions.

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Speaker 1: And I think that’s the difference about the football that

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Speaker 1: you see today. Today’s defense is built off guys making plays,

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Speaker 1: playmakers being all over the field and all three positions.

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Speaker 1: As opposed to years ago, it was hard nose, tough, smart,

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Speaker 1: give me, give me eleven guys that can line up

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Speaker 1: and run through a brick wall. And that was the

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Speaker 1: type of defense that people were used to. Now now

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Speaker 1: it’s it’s it’s an educated game now. So guys got

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Speaker 1: to be smart. You gotta be able to adjust to

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Speaker 1: what offense is doing and geb be able to adjust

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Speaker 1: what your coordinate and wants you to do and be

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Speaker 1: able to make plays. Yeah, it’s the old Ray Nichky

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Speaker 1: prison guards on mean machine, you know, no teeth looking

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Speaker 1: and staring at you at the quarterback across the way. Uh,

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Speaker 1: maybe that’s a dinosaur now, but this position to me.

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Speaker 1: There were six linebackers generally on the fifty three man

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Speaker 1: roster almost for the entire season, and of those six,

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Speaker 1: I thought this group grew as much as any group,

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Speaker 1: particularly the defense, maybe as any on the team, especially

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Speaker 1: when the team defense for the Chiefs went from being

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Speaker 1: kind of well what are they They’re kind of learning

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Speaker 1: under Spag system and then became arguably the best defense

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Speaker 1: after the Tennessee game, really after the Tennessee game all

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Speaker 1: the way to the Super Bowl, this defense statistically and

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Speaker 1: most of the major metrics were the top team in

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Speaker 1: the league. All Right, those six guys, three of those

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Speaker 1: are under contract, Anthony Hitchins, Ben Neeman, and those two,

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Speaker 1: interestingly enough, where the green dot, meaning that they’re the

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Speaker 1: guys that Spags will talk to the communication from the sideline.

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Speaker 1: And then there’s Dorian O’Daniel who got to play more

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Speaker 1: and more as the season went on. He’s kind of

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Speaker 1: that definition of the hybrid linebacker. Reggie Raglan free agent

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Speaker 1: Darren Lee free agent, and Damian Wilson, who I thought

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Speaker 1: improved as much as anybody maybe in this group and

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Speaker 1: on the team, is a club option free agent. So

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Speaker 1: we’ll see how this goes. But if those six guys

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Speaker 1: what the Chiefs already have, what do you see there?

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Speaker 1: Think there? And I did see growth on those guys,

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Speaker 1: and I thought the defense went to another level, especially

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Speaker 1: because these guys went to another level. Yeah, they went

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Speaker 1: to battle, he said. The way the season started off,

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Speaker 1: a lot of pressure was put on the defense, especially

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Speaker 1: the linebackers, be able to make calls, get guys a

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Speaker 1: line to sign um. And whenever there’s a new defense,

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Speaker 1: the terminology is new. The guys you’re, you know, playing

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Speaker 1: in front of you and behind you are new. You’re

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Speaker 1: you’re learning how to fit off one another, and you’re

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Speaker 1: learning how hard is this linebacker gonna hit this this gap?

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Speaker 1: You know? How how how quickly are we going to

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Speaker 1: change the call when this wide receiver goes information from

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Speaker 1: being strong left to strong right? When are we gonna

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Speaker 1: make the call? When are we gonna switch? When aren’t we?

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Speaker 1: And so between the safety position, the linebackersition and everybody

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Speaker 1: had to kind of get on the same page. And

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Speaker 1: you found out, you know, there was a game that

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Speaker 1: came in and exploited that more so than any other

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Speaker 1: game this year was that Green Pay Packer game. Aaron

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Speaker 1: Rodgers came in here with Green Bay and they was

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Speaker 1: able to isolate and work on a man to man

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Speaker 1: between their running backs and our linebackers like never before seen.

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Speaker 1: So many plays, so many scoring strikes, big plays went

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Speaker 1: against the linebacker crew in that one game. Did it

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Speaker 1: almost it almost caused a lot of the fan base

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Speaker 1: to lose faith? Did this defense become something of a

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Speaker 1: playoff defense? If at the linebacker position, we can’t stop

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Speaker 1: a team like Green Bay. But what you saw from

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Speaker 1: that was some scar tissue, right they scarred up. They

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Speaker 1: got to the film room and what the coaching staff

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Speaker 1: and what the players realized was and man, if linebackers

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Speaker 1: just can focus on the run and we can help

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Speaker 1: underneath on the past, we don’t allow ourselves get isolated

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Speaker 1: with you know, single coverage out on out wide against

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Speaker 1: running backs. I mean, if that’s the only one weakness

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Speaker 1: and we know about it, we can adjust to that.

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Speaker 1: That’s a simple adjustment cent of safety out there to

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Speaker 1: cover them. If that’s the only thing you can do

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Speaker 1: to try to create big plays against this defense, and

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Speaker 1: what we found out about it, that was the only thing.

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Speaker 1: That was the simple adjustment that was made. And once

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Speaker 1: that turning point, once we created we started to dictate

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Speaker 1: towards offenses what you could and could not do. You

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Speaker 1: saw this this defense take on a whole another face,

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Speaker 1: a whole, another facade, and they became at that point

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Speaker 1: working in turning and turning and churning toward that defense.

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Speaker 1: We saw at the end of the season there was

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Speaker 1: not one of the top five I think was the

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Speaker 1: top defense in the league as we got into the playoffs. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and Spags will tell you too that that Green Bay game,

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Speaker 1: particularly with the coverages, was a watershed moment and changing

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Speaker 1: schematics and looking at, you know, personnel different what they

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Speaker 1: could and could not do. Keep in mind though, the

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Speaker 1: next week in that Minnesota game, they stepped up and

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Speaker 1: made plays. The Chiefs got two stops against Minnesota. I

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Speaker 1: know we Matt Moore did a great job in that game.

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Speaker 1: We see the ninety one yard run. We talked about

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Speaker 1: that from the offense, but the defense got the stops.

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Speaker 1: They got two three and outs back to back against

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Speaker 1: that really good Stephen Diggs and Mac and all the others,

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Speaker 1: and so that defense started to come alive. The other

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Speaker 1: against the run game was the Tennessee game at Tennessee

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Speaker 1: the sixty nine yard run by Derrick Henry, the other

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Speaker 1: big plays. That’s the other one. Spags will tell you

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Speaker 1: became a watershed moment in the run game as far

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Speaker 1: as defense and things started to turn. It came together. Okay,

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Speaker 1: the croc pod guys, if you the crock pot guys, again,

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Speaker 1: not a demeaning term. These are guys that are developmental

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Speaker 1: that have been in your system that fans forget about

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Speaker 1: either because of injury or they put on the practice

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Speaker 1: squad or they’re on some in their injured list. There’s

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Speaker 1: not a big crock pot with this group. Darius Harris

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Speaker 1: we saw him some a training camp in the preseason,

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Speaker 1: was on the non football injured list. And so Darius

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Speaker 1: Harris really, to me is the only guy on the

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Speaker 1: roster that puts in this croc pod category. But whether

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Speaker 1: you’re a croc pot, a free agent trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out that the team want me, or am I coming

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Speaker 1: back to me with Spags at this position, there’s three

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Speaker 1: areas flexibility, because we just talked about it. You’ve got

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Speaker 1: to do a lot of things now as a linebacker too. Availability,

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Speaker 1: and I don’t mean just physically available. I mean not

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Speaker 1: just being well healthy and stand off the injured list.

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Speaker 1: It’s also being available mentally and emotionally, because this defense

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Speaker 1: was mentally and emotionally available in their run to the

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Speaker 1: Super Bowl championship. And then reliability. Can I rely on you?

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Speaker 1: If I’m gonna put a green dot on your helmet?

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Speaker 1: Can I rely on you? I probably gonna give you

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Speaker 1: a bunch of other here’s how we’re gonna just after

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Speaker 1: the Green Bay game? Can I rely on you to

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Speaker 1: get it? And with spacks you played for him. But flexibility, reliability, availability, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: when you add those three things together, those three components,

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Speaker 1: you end up with a guy that can stay on

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Speaker 1: the field no matter what the situation. Down in distance,

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Speaker 1: even after some adversity. You don’t you don’t. You don’t

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Speaker 1: worry about him going into a shell. You don’t worry

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Speaker 1: about him playing different after a big play was given up.

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Speaker 1: You don’t worry about him playing different if there’s a

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Speaker 1: big lead. He’s very consistent. He makes the same cause

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Speaker 1: when he sees the same things so that everybody can

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Speaker 1: have a sense of trust and consistency. The shadows over

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Speaker 1: over the entire defense. One thing you’ll see with our guys,

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Speaker 1: even though, like you said, we don’t have many guys

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Speaker 1: in the crock pot. We are looking toward a pair

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Speaker 1: of guys with O’Daniel and Ben Nieming the hawkeye of

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Speaker 1: making a big jump right from you two to year three.

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Speaker 1: That’s when you expect a guy. All right, You’ve got

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Speaker 1: used to the system, you’re used to the city. This

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Speaker 1: ain’t college no more. This is the NFL. You face

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Speaker 1: guys on special teams, normal dawns. You’ve been through training camp.

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Speaker 1: You know the NFL playbook look like you know. It’s

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Speaker 1: the amount of information. Now, when are you gonna be

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Speaker 1: able to just let it go? When are you gonna

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Speaker 1: let let it all shine? Let your ability, your skill level,

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Speaker 1: you know your physical your physicality, your mentals takeover. When

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Speaker 1: can you start to just be instinctive and react to plays?

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Speaker 1: And that’s what I’m really looking forward between Ben Niemon

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Speaker 1: and d O d O daniel. I want to see

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Speaker 1: those guys come in hungry, fighting for a position, fighting

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Speaker 1: for playing time, and not let anybody that don’t let

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Speaker 1: anybody take that chicken. And by the way, we’re way

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Speaker 1: past the first quarter. We’re well into the second quarter

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Speaker 1: of this discussion. This is our Defending the Kingdom episode,

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Speaker 1: getting you ready to refit your backpack to climb that

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Speaker 1: mountain again and go for another championship. But we’re dealing

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Speaker 1: with Shop’s position. Here are the linebackers. But I saw

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Speaker 1: that in Dorian O’Daniel and I saw it in Ben Nieman,

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Speaker 1: particularly in the playoffs. They’re both willing run defenders, good

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Speaker 1: run defenders, and they can cover the pass. But then

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Speaker 1: Nieman’s blitz lad in the game, remember the forty seven

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Speaker 1: second possession. We’re spags. I’ve got an aspects how many

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Speaker 1: times we ran at blitz Withneman. He sent him on

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Speaker 1: a blitz out of the past cover because Nieman was

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Speaker 1: the nickel dimebacker, right, he would come in during with

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Speaker 1: that specialty group. But when they sent him on the blitz,

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Speaker 1: he did a terrific job. He hits Garoppolo forces and

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Speaker 1: incompletion and Garoppolo gets his jaw jacked. You’ve seen the

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Speaker 1: close ups out right, it’s a heck of a play.

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Speaker 1: But to your point, I’ve seen it with Nieman and O’Daniel.

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Speaker 1: I’m really interested to watch them this summer at Ota,

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Speaker 1: see him in training camp, and to see if that

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Speaker 1: jump can be made by those guys. Yeah, not only

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Speaker 1: from a mental standpoint, but physically. The one thing I

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Speaker 1: struggled with. I struggled with keeping my weight up during

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Speaker 1: the season. So I was into my fifth season before

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Speaker 1: I could game ten pounds. I was two and twenty

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Speaker 1: two pounds for the first five or six years of

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Speaker 1: my NFL career, and then once I got to my

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Speaker 1: seventh and eighth season, my metabolism slowed down. I was

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Speaker 1: able to get up to two thirty two thirty five.

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Speaker 1: When we talk about availability, you talk about being available, physicalness,

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Speaker 1: trying to be, you know, an intimidating linebacker. Those hits,

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Speaker 1: it starts to rack up if you’re under two hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty five pounds. And that’s the one thing that

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Speaker 1: concerns me about d D’s He’s just his size. Now.

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Speaker 1: Now Ben Nieman has the frame, he has the frame

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Speaker 1: to be able to put on some more weight, but

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Speaker 1: it comes down to your metabolism. If his metabolism doesn’t

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Speaker 1: slow down, then no matter how much calories he puts down,

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Speaker 1: no matter how much he eats, no matter what kind

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Speaker 1: of offseason diet he gets on. Once he is training

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Speaker 1: camp and they started doing two days and they started

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Speaker 1: practicing and hitting the weights. Everybody goes down to that

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Speaker 1: natural weight, and I want to see if he’s able

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Speaker 1: to really manage that and you know, be a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a thicker player, put a little bit more emphasis,

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Speaker 1: a little bit more umph behind what he’s doing on

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Speaker 1: special teams and on passing downs. But I think both

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Speaker 1: of those guys have a bright future if they can

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Speaker 1: just learn a little bit of the nuances of the game,

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Speaker 1: learn how to play the game inside of the game.

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Speaker 1: And I think that if they kind of hook arms

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Speaker 1: and link arms to hitchens. He has such a mindset

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Speaker 1: and such a knowledge about the game, and you don’t

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Speaker 1: get the experience unless you have the time to sit

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Speaker 1: down with him and actually talk football. You don’t see

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Speaker 1: it on the field. You just see him come takes

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Speaker 1: people heads off. You see the blur five three blurn

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Speaker 1: across the field taking somebody’s head off. But he actually

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Speaker 1: is His football intelligence is off the chart. And I

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Speaker 1: think if if Nieman and Doriano Daniel can spend more

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Speaker 1: time around him, learning his thought process. What how does

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Speaker 1: he prepare before the snap? How does he prepare once

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Speaker 1: the alignment comes out? Is he have a different mentality

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Speaker 1: depending on the offensive personnel and then how he attacks

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Speaker 1: the tacks the game as a whole. I think all

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Speaker 1: those guys can make big strides and and and force

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Speaker 1: us to make some really tough to see when he

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Speaker 1: comes to this linebacking group. Yeah, and with Anthony Hitchins,

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Speaker 1: that’s in that availability category. And the obvious one is

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Speaker 1: to be healthy, but the not so obvious is to

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Speaker 1: be emotionally and mentally available. And that’s on a daily basis.

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Speaker 1: Who’s consistent and that is Hitchens. He will teach you

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Speaker 1: how to do that. Just you know, yoke to him

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Speaker 1: and he’ll do that. Okay, we’re at halftime now of

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Speaker 1: our Defending the Kingdom podcast. Are refitting the backpack. We

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Speaker 1: are climbing them mountain and getting ready to climb the

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Speaker 1: mountain again. And we’re going to take a look now

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Speaker 1: if you look at the free agents in this category

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Speaker 1: and here again, this is interesting because fans want you

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Speaker 1: to go, you know, spend money on everybody. Well he can’t.

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Speaker 1: But Shaq Barrett of Tampa Bay Marcus Golden of the Giants,

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Speaker 1: Bud Dupree of Pittsburgh, They’re going to resign him. I

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Speaker 1: think he’s are a good player. Then there’s an interesting

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Speaker 1: crew of New England Patriots, Jamie Collins, Shaley Calhoun, Kyle

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Speaker 1: van Noy in this category. Corey Littleton of the Rams,

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Speaker 1: to me, is interesting. Alec Ogletree was just released by

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Speaker 1: the Giants. He was with the Ms prior to Spags

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Speaker 1: being or after after Spags was head coach of the Rams.

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Speaker 1: So Matt House, you look at Matt House, you look

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Speaker 1: at Brandon Daily, who are on the Chiefs roster. I’m

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Speaker 1: in on the Chiefs coaching staff. Matt House coaches this

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Speaker 1: position with the linebackers. Then you look at Brandon Daily

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Speaker 1: maybe talking in the New England guys. But this is

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Speaker 1: also a category, and I want to be sensitive. How

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Speaker 1: I put in this is you only have so much

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Speaker 1: money under the salary cap. I don’t care if they

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Speaker 1: increase it. They’re gonna increase it with the CBA. I

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Speaker 1: get all that, but you also have to be careful

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Speaker 1: in this position to me, because can’t you draft this

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Speaker 1: position and develop this position with the way it’s becoming

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Speaker 1: The national Football League, because it seems to me like

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Speaker 1: this is a category where you don’t want to overspend.

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Speaker 1: I got firsthand experience in that category when I was

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Speaker 1: with the Eagles and O two and it was time

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Speaker 1: for my my contract to be expired. I was a

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Speaker 1: one year deal, had a great season. I thought the

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Speaker 1: Eagles was gonna make me one of the cornerstones their defense,

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Speaker 1: and I got handed a formula. I got handed a

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Speaker 1: form that this basically said that, um, you know you

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Speaker 1: that the Eagles defense was built to pay cornerbacks and

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Speaker 1: pass rushers. And you’ll see that throughout the league. The

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Speaker 1: great defenses have lockdown corners and they have great pass rushers.

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Speaker 1: So when you when you when you spend money on

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Speaker 1: those two positions, you have to cut corners somewhere. You

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Speaker 1: have to The budget has to be used, um and

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Speaker 1: use smartly. When it comes to the other positions, and

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Speaker 1: the linebacker position is one. If you run a simple

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Speaker 1: scheme and you’re able to get guys that can make plays,

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Speaker 1: guys that can play aggressively downhill, shock of the guys

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Speaker 1: make tackles, um great tacklers, those type of attributes. You

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Speaker 1: seem to find those in linebackers. Throughout the draft. Every

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Speaker 1: year you talk about the cornerback position, yeah, you gotta.

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Speaker 1: You know, there’s a corner from Ohio State, there’s a

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Speaker 1: corner from Floyds. It’s three or you know, three or

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Speaker 1: four of them that might be first round picks. You

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Speaker 1: talk about wide receivers there, it’s eight of them that

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Speaker 1: can go in first round. Offensive tackles it’s another four

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Speaker 1: or five guys in the first round picks. Obviously the

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Speaker 1: quarterback position, five guys can go first round. When you

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Speaker 1: talk about how many first round picks in these other positions,

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Speaker 1: it only leaves a few for linebackers. So there’s a

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Speaker 1: few great ones. When we talk about the draft, you’ll

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Speaker 1: see one or two of them. But when you talk

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Speaker 1: about free agents, that’s the position that teams are constantly

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Speaker 1: turning over. And when you see teams constantly turn over

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Speaker 1: that position, that allows the free agency pool in that

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Speaker 1: position to be so deep. It’s almost a no brainer

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Speaker 1: not to really pay even gas in your own system,

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Speaker 1: not to pay the big bucks to that linebacker position

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Speaker 1: because you can always find an equal value out there

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Speaker 1: for a lot cheaper. Another guy that’s interesting here is

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Speaker 1: Elijah Lee. Remember him, He had the kickoff coverage tackle

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Speaker 1: on McCole Hardman in the Super Bowl fifty four. Elijah

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Speaker 1: Lee’s from Blue Springs, played at k State. Really good

395
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Speaker 1: player and he’s been more of a special teams guy

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Speaker 1: with San Francisco, but he’s had his moments with the

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Speaker 1: forty nine ers. He’s a free agent. Will he re

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Speaker 1: signed with San Francisco, Not sure, But he’s an interesting

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Speaker 1: guy because he also is in that hybrid kind of position,

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Speaker 1: like he’s a willing run defender, but he can cover

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Speaker 1: the past. You’re talking about keeping weight, trying to gain

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Speaker 1: what I mean, trying to keep your weight on you

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Speaker 1: gain too much weight, though, the dude from Green Bays

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Speaker 1: running that wheel route right by you, right you’re going

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Speaker 1: to dang. So it’s really this position, to me, is

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Speaker 1: fascinating in the way it’s changed, how you have to

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Speaker 1: evaluate it, how it plugs in to your overall defense,

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Speaker 1: and how it plugs into your salary cap. And so

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Speaker 1: it’s to me, it’s just it’s very, very intriguing to

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Speaker 1: see how this has changed in the National Football League.

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Speaker 1: As we go now to our fourth quarter of this

412
00:20:38,480 –> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 1: defending the Kingdom, refitting the backpack, climbing them out and

413
00:20:41,520 –> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 1: once again are getting ready to climb and the linebacker position.

414
00:20:46,000 –> 00:20:48,800
Speaker 1: I look at the draft and I see a lot

415
00:20:48,840 –> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 1: of these hybrid guys. It’s the way the game has become. Now,

416
00:20:51,840 –> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 1: he won’t be there when the Chiefs draft. I’m hoping

417
00:20:54,320 –> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 1: he goes to an NFC team because I don’t want

418
00:20:56,080 –> 00:20:59,600
Speaker 1: to face him on a regular basis. But he’s really

419
00:20:59,600 –> 00:21:01,679
Speaker 1: interested because he’s a Kansas City kid. He played at

420
00:21:01,680 –> 00:21:05,440
Speaker 1: the Lathan North Um and that great program. But Isaiah Simmons,

421
00:21:05,440 –> 00:21:10,640
Speaker 1: a Clemson, was a safety. But he has destroyed the combine.

422
00:21:10,720 –> 00:21:13,400
Speaker 1: I mean he has become, uh one of the main

423
00:21:13,480 –> 00:21:16,200
Speaker 1: stories of Indianapolis. Man, he’s got Yeah. He’s a guy

424
00:21:16,200 –> 00:21:17,480
Speaker 1: from a Lath to the North, like you said. I

425
00:21:17,520 –> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 1: was able to see him his senior year, a guy

426
00:21:20,280 –> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 1: named Marlon Moore that goes to churchmen at church at

427
00:21:22,040 –> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 1: the Harvest. He was like, hey, man, my cousin plays

428
00:21:24,440 –> 00:21:25,680
Speaker 1: ball it or Lath to the North, and you want

429
00:21:25,680 –> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 1: to check him out. When one weekend it was Isaiah Simmons.

430
00:21:28,320 –> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 1: So I go watch the game and I’m saying, man,

431
00:21:29,760 –> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 1: it’s safety. He don’t want to hit nobody like like

432
00:21:32,040 –> 00:21:33,959
Speaker 1: like what you say, And they say, man, he got

433
00:21:34,040 –> 00:21:36,439
Speaker 1: offered by Clemson. I said, hold on, a safety got

434
00:21:36,480 –> 00:21:38,920
Speaker 1: offered by Clemson that don’t want to hit nobody. Well,

435
00:21:38,920 –> 00:21:41,119
Speaker 1: this this young man has gone to Clemson. He’s developed

436
00:21:41,160 –> 00:21:44,679
Speaker 1: his body, his soul, his mindset. Not only does he

437
00:21:44,760 –> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 1: hit people, he hits him with intentionality. Now he he

438
00:21:47,560 –> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 1: learned that you’re either gonna be the hammer or you’re

439
00:21:50,000 –> 00:21:52,959
Speaker 1: gonna be the nail. And more than likely he’s the hammer. Um,

440
00:21:53,240 –> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 1: he’s done a great job of, like you’re saying this,

441
00:21:55,320 –> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 1: redefinding his his body, his profile. But he still has

442
00:21:59,800 –> 00:22:03,199
Speaker 1: amazing track speed. He ran a four three seven that

443
00:22:03,359 –> 00:22:05,920
Speaker 1: is unheard of in the linebacker crew. I think it

444
00:22:06,080 –> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: caused everybody to re look at their clocks a few times.

445
00:22:09,440 –> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, he ran faster than Pat Pierson. He

446
00:22:12,280 –> 00:22:15,159
Speaker 1: ran fast and Sammy why all these other receivers that

447
00:22:15,280 –> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 1: you Julio Jones, he ran fast in all these phenomenal

448
00:22:18,480 –> 00:22:21,399
Speaker 1: wide receivers. But he’s an all around athlete. He’s he’s

449
00:22:21,400 –> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 1: a guy who played safety, corner. He played all these

450
00:22:23,800 –> 00:22:27,120
Speaker 1: different rover positions for Clemson. He did an amazing job.

451
00:22:27,480 –> 00:22:29,159
Speaker 1: And so you got to find a pro team is

452
00:22:29,920 –> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 1: able to use his skill sets. He’s a jack of

453
00:22:32,920 –> 00:22:35,200
Speaker 1: all trade, maybe end up being a master up Nune.

454
00:22:35,600 –> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 1: But he’s gonna he’s gonna be drafted very early in

455
00:22:38,280 –> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 1: the draft, hopefully bad a team like the Giants, a

456
00:22:41,400 –> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 1: team that wants a defensive impact player that they can

457
00:22:44,080 –> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 1: use in multiple positions. But I think that the Kansas

458
00:22:48,000 –> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 1: City area have nothing but love for Isaiah Simmons and

459
00:22:51,600 –> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: hope help hold him all the best with his NFL career.

460
00:22:54,760 –> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 1: You know the other big programs. You have guys here too,

461
00:22:56,840 –> 00:22:59,199
Speaker 1: Kenneth Murray of Oklahoma. People around here know about him

462
00:22:59,280 –> 00:23:03,360
Speaker 1: being a Big twelve player and he was dynamic. Anthony Jennings,

463
00:23:03,880 –> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 1: the Moses Kid, both of Alabama. Patrick Queen of LSU

464
00:23:06,840 –> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: comes into the discussion. But let’s go back now to

465
00:23:10,080 –> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 1: what we’ve talked about the first twenty some minutes of

466
00:23:12,359 –> 00:23:15,640
Speaker 1: this podcast, and that is this linebacker position, how it’s changed,

467
00:23:15,960 –> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 1: how you view it, how you view it with the

468
00:23:17,520 –> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 1: salary cap in your roster. This to me is a

469
00:23:20,320 –> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 1: position too where I can find an FCS player. I

470
00:23:23,640 –> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 1: can go find a player at Richmond like you, right,

471
00:23:26,760 –> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 1: and I can go find a player who’s a Division

472
00:23:29,040 –> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 1: two player maybe who can end up being the guy

473
00:23:32,280 –> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: that we have described here over the last twenty two minutes.

474
00:23:35,440 –> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 1: Now a highly regarded guy out of Appalachian State, a

475
00:23:38,560 –> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 1: Keem Davis Gaither’s this kind of fits the category. But

476
00:23:42,720 –> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: there’s others here in the later rounds where you can

477
00:23:44,560 –> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: get where I might go get a Missouri Valley Conference

478
00:23:47,560 –> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: football player, like a North Dakota State kid or Illinois

479
00:23:51,080 –> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: State kid or a South Dakota kid because of this

480
00:23:55,600 –> 00:23:58,959
Speaker 1: position and how we describe it. But in the draft,

481
00:23:59,040 –> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 1: this is one if you’re looking for linebackers, I think

482
00:24:01,680 –> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: you gotta dig deep. You gotta be on page three

483
00:24:03,800 –> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 1: and four and five because you might find something in

484
00:24:05,720 –> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 1: the late rounds that could be a big time player

485
00:24:07,960 –> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: for you. And the one thing you unique about the

486
00:24:09,600 –> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: linebacker position is everybody’s skill set ain’t gonna fit everybody’s defense.

487
00:24:14,000 –> 00:24:18,360
Speaker 1: And so a linebacker that’s perfect for coach bags defense

488
00:24:18,720 –> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 1: might be somebody that people have ranked twentieth when they

489
00:24:22,400 –> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 1: start ranking their linebackers, like they don’t fit their defense

490
00:24:25,160 –> 00:24:26,640
Speaker 1: on anybody else in the league. But when it comes

491
00:24:26,680 –> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: to our defense the way we demand our linebackers to play,

492
00:24:30,200 –> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: this might be our number one guy, but we know

493
00:24:32,600 –> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: he’s ranked twentieth, So you don’t need to draft him first, second,

494
00:24:35,680 –> 00:24:38,199
Speaker 1: or even third round. He might be available for in

495
00:24:38,200 –> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: the fourth round. You don’t have to give up any

496
00:24:39,760 –> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: equity to get him just because the way he and

497
00:24:42,600 –> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: his skill sets fits your unique defense. I don’t think

498
00:24:45,840 –> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 1: there’s any other position in the NFL where that’s the case.

499
00:24:49,320 –> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: I think wide receivers. If you transcend to somebody’s offense,

500
00:24:52,880 –> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 1: you transcend everybody. Running Backs, you’re a great running back

501
00:24:55,720 –> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 1: offensive time. If you can pass, protech quarterback, if you

502
00:24:58,000 –> 00:25:00,080
Speaker 1: can spin it, you can spend it, pass rushers, if

503
00:25:00,119 –> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: you get after the quarterback, cornerbacks, if you can cover,

504
00:25:02,840 –> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: you can cover safeties. You’re a hitter, you understand angles,

505
00:25:05,880 –> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: high point, then you you’re effective in everybody’s defense. It’s

506
00:25:09,720 –> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 1: that linebacker position. And I think that’s why our teams

507
00:25:12,359 –> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: turn it over so so frequently, is that you start

508
00:25:15,119 –> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 1: looking at people’s big boards and you see the Queens

509
00:25:18,680 –> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 1: and the Murray’s and Simmons, and you feel like, when

510
00:25:21,680 –> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: you’re drafting twenty third or forty, if you gotta get

511
00:25:24,760 –> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: this guy because he’s a he’s a top twenty pick,

512
00:25:26,800 –> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: and now he’s available, But if he doesn’t fit your defense,

513
00:25:30,680 –> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 1: and you look deeper in that draft, you see somebody

514
00:25:33,359 –> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 1: as a gay from Montana, the Grids Dante. He moves

515
00:25:38,240 –> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: so fluently at the draft, at the combine, I was

516
00:25:41,280 –> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: that’s before I even saw a ranking. I think I

517
00:25:43,520 –> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 1: saw him rank thirty second or something like that outside linebackers.

518
00:25:46,600 –> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: But the kid can move, he has instincts, he’s natural

519
00:25:50,359 –> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 1: at the position, and so I mean I could care

520
00:25:53,240 –> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 1: less where he falls on anybody else’s big board. I

521
00:25:55,440 –> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: think that player could be an impact player in coach

522
00:25:57,760 –> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 1: Bags defense. Yeah, and we’ll close out this one. And

523
00:25:59,680 –> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: it’s just way. This is where a bread veach and

524
00:26:02,560 –> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: his staff is so very good because they the communication

525
00:26:07,920 –> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: is strong with Spags and his defensive staff. So when

526
00:26:10,800 –> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: Spags goes, here’s what I need. This just accentuates what

527
00:26:14,400 –> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 1: you’re saying. Here, here’s my checklist. Then instead of a

528
00:26:18,520 –> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: bread Veach either reaching or taking a guy he’s got,

529
00:26:22,480 –> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: we’ve got to go find a Spags guy at this position.

530
00:26:25,680 –> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: We’ll also close this way. In the last couple of

531
00:26:27,480 –> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: minutes here you have said is a veteran and going

532
00:26:31,119 –> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 1: back on your career, this is one where I’ve got

533
00:26:34,119 –> 00:26:36,199
Speaker 1: to find a place. Let’s say I’ve played four to

534
00:26:36,240 –> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 1: five years of my career. Now I’m a free agent.

535
00:26:39,680 –> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: Instead of maybe taking a little more money and going

536
00:26:41,880 –> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 1: to a place that’s a risk whether I don’t fit.

537
00:26:44,480 –> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: I either don’t fit the culture, the subculture of their scheme.

538
00:26:47,440 –> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: Why would it go take a little more money if

539
00:26:49,280 –> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: I can stay here or go to a place where

540
00:26:52,359 –> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: I fit all of that. I fit spags, a subculture,

541
00:26:55,080 –> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: I fit the over I love playing here. I think

542
00:26:57,240 –> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: you know teams guys want to come here now and

543
00:27:00,040 –> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: then third fifth or scheme to me a few more

544
00:27:03,520 –> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 1: dollars could mean a lot more problems. Man. One thing

545
00:27:05,920 –> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: you’ll find out with different organizations, and when that calling

546
00:27:08,280 –> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: anybody out, you know everybody does things their own way.

547
00:27:10,560 –> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: But you have organizations where the general manager doesn’t tell

548
00:27:13,040 –> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: the truth to the players, where the scouting department goes

549
00:27:16,480 –> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: behind the coach’s backs and tells guys, hey, man, like, man,

550
00:27:19,119 –> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 1: you really got to focus on X, Y and Z

551
00:27:20,760 –> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: in your game. Where the coach is telling the focus

552
00:27:22,480 –> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: on ABNC. That leaves to a player totally confused about

553
00:27:27,080 –> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 1: who you’re gonna serve, which master you’re gonna serve? Like,

554
00:27:29,000 –> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: am I gonna do what the my agent wants me to? Do.

555
00:27:31,560 –> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: Am I gonna do what my coach tell me to do.

556
00:27:33,119 –> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: I’m gonna do with the general manager in the scouting department,

557
00:27:35,040 –> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 1: like who am I listening too? Who actually determines whether

558
00:27:38,400 –> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 1: I get another year’s contract or that The one thing

559
00:27:41,680 –> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: that you will hear over and over about Kansas City.

560
00:27:44,880 –> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: Andy Reid sets the vision and everybody that has their

561
00:27:47,960 –> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 1: focus on the same goal, everybody’s going in the same direction.

562
00:27:51,760 –> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 1: They talk about personnel on a daily basis, so that

563
00:27:54,560 –> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: everybody in the room knows exactly where they stand in

564
00:27:57,800 –> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: the coach’s eyes, and that as in the place where

565
00:28:00,600 –> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: they staying in Brett Beach’s eyes, and that stands place

566
00:28:03,119 –> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: how you hear be Enemy and coach spags talk about

567
00:28:06,760 –> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 1: them in the media when they have a chance to

568
00:28:08,200 –> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: talk um. It’s the same message. It’s a family orientated thing.

569
00:28:12,119 –> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 1: It’s family orientated. We want everybody to progress. We want

570
00:28:14,640 –> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: guys to play fast. Let your personality show. That’s something

571
00:28:18,040 –> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 1: that you hear here so often, and it’s the same

572
00:28:21,600 –> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: message from from from one level to the next. And

573
00:28:24,480 –> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 1: when you see guys that are in their fourth fifth

574
00:28:26,280 –> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 1: year who’ve struggled to make a play, make make their

575
00:28:29,960 –> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: make their impact, on the league and now they’re facing

576
00:28:32,520 –> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: free agency and they got to figure out where am

577
00:28:34,160 –> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: I going to go? But the one thing you know

578
00:28:36,040 –> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: when you come here, you come here to Kansas City,

579
00:28:38,040 –> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: you’re gonna be playing with the team that’s gonna be

580
00:28:39,680 –> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: highly successful. You know that that’s one thing we did.

581
00:28:42,560 –> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: We win here, We win a whole bunch. But you

582
00:28:44,720 –> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: also understand this is a a first year of a dynasty.

583
00:28:50,200 –> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: This is the first year of ten years of a

584
00:28:52,440 –> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: very successful football of Coach Reid’s offense, Coach spags defense.

585
00:28:58,360 –> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: It’s it’s playmakers all over the field. It allows you

586
00:29:02,240 –> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: to be aggressive. The defense dictates to the offense what

587
00:29:05,120 –> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: you’re gonna do. All offense dictates to the opponent’s defense

588
00:29:08,000 –> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: what they’re gonna do. Our special teams we take a second,

589
00:29:11,880 –> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: second seat, to a back seat to nobody. If you

590
00:29:14,760 –> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: if you enjoy being an aggressive downhill playmaking a football player,

591
00:29:21,120 –> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: then a linebacker who has those skill sets, who’s not

592
00:29:24,400 –> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: afraid of making an ion team, making a pick six,

593
00:29:27,320 –> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: who’s not afraid of going and getting an attacker fol

594
00:29:29,440 –> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: laws a big hit, causing the fumble, scoring on a

595
00:29:32,920 –> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: scoop and score. That’s what this defense is built upon

596
00:29:36,320 –> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: is built upon guys taking advantage of the opportunities to

597
00:29:39,160 –> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: make plays. And you’ll find so many guys in so

598
00:29:42,360 –> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: many different defenses where that is being suffocated, that’s being

599
00:29:46,600 –> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: taken from them because they’re so scared of doing something wrong.

600
00:29:49,360 –> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: They didn’t get the right check or they guarded the

601
00:29:51,840 –> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: wrong person, and now the way to the world is

602
00:29:54,160 –> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: on them. That the organizations trying to get rid of

603
00:29:55,760 –> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: them because they thought there was this and now they

604
00:29:57,440 –> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: found out they’re not that. Coming Kansas City, It’s it’s

605
00:30:02,560 –> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: a culture, it’s a way of life. It’s just it’s

606
00:30:06,400 –> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: built on truth, communication, playing aggressive, being accountable, being flexible,

607
00:30:12,160 –> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: being responsible. And I think most guys that are free

608
00:30:14,800 –> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: agents would love to be a part of something like

609
00:30:16,880 –> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: that to kind of re energize and reboost their career.

610
00:30:20,480 –> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: I kind of feel like I need to get my

611
00:30:22,320 –> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: fifty nine back on. I don’t want to take it

612
00:30:23,680 –> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: from Reggie Wagne, but I gotta I can get me

613
00:30:25,800 –> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: a jerry to getting myself suited up. I’m ready to go.

614
00:30:28,560 –> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: I would definitely be a difficult spaces We’ll find you something.

615
00:30:31,040 –> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: We put fifty or fifty x to the third power,

616
00:30:33,920 –> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: But what you just described too. Is one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons that Chiefs won Super Bowl fifty four and why

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Speaker 1: they have a chance to climb them out and again.

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Speaker 1: And that is a strong subculture defensively built by Steve Spagnolo,

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Speaker 1: and not only just scheme, but how they do their business,

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Speaker 1: how this staff does their business, how they view linebacker,

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00:30:51,240 –> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: how they review linebackers, how they’ll pick linebackers, how they’ll

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Speaker 1: pay linebackers, all part of the subculture. He is Sean

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00:30:58,960 –> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: Barber Tenure NFL linebacker the Shop Barbershop, aka the Spider.

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00:31:03,840 –> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: I’m Attolta’s voice of your world champion Chiefs. This has

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Speaker 1: been the linebacker edition of Defending the Kingdom. Refitting your

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00:31:10,640 –> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: backpack for the next climb, and our next one will

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Speaker 1: be the position that really changed the linebacker position. We’re

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Speaker 1: gonna jump deep into tight ends and why in the

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00:31:21,840 –> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: National Football League it has become one of the more

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Speaker 1: dynamic positions of any Thanks for joining us and stay

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00:31:28,720 –> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: right with us as we get ready for that climb

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00:31:30,560 –> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: back up the matter. Thanks for listening to the Chief’s

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00:31:39,840 –> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: official podcast network to touch down down and the celebration

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00:31:47,600 –> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: begins in their head.